Girlwithnoname – Fitness at Home

16 Responses to “HIIT and I need YOUR input!!”

1. Alicia Says:
   May 22nd, 2009 at 7:58 pm

   I had no idea you twitpic’d yesterday. I’m going to have to go back and look for those.

   I can’t help you with the HIIT 1:3 stuff – I have no idea. Hopefully someone will have some helpful input :)

2. Jon Says:
   May 23rd, 2009 at 12:19 am

   Hi Jackie,

   I’m not 100% sure on why it “has” to be exactly 1:3. My guessing is that it is related to the energy systems. If anyone else can confirm or clarify on the below, it would be cool.

   When you do sprints, you mainly involve the ATP-PC system. This system can last up to 30 seconds but peak power can only be sustained for approx 10 seconds. When you are doing intervals more towards the 30 second mark you also start to use the anaerobic glycotic system. Once you’ve finished exercising, it takes about 30 seconds to replenish about 1/2 of the ATP-PC system with full recovery taking up to 2 mins (although some sources say anywhere up to 5 mins).

   I can only guess here, but it could be based on the 10 second peak power output vs 30 second 1/2 recovery.

   If you do a 1:1 work to rest ratio then you are most likely getting the 50% recovery rather than a full recovery. What will happen is you would start to rely on the anaerobic glycotic system more than the ATP-PC system.

   BTW, if you want to have some fun with your professor, tell them that the body doesn’t produce lactic acid :-)

   http://www.drlenkravitz.com/Articles/lactatearticle.html

   Jon

   http://joncoulson.blogspot.com

3. Girlwith Noname Says:
   May 23rd, 2009 at 12:31 am

   whew. thanks jon… that’s a load of info there. I appreciate it… and believe it or not, it actually makes more sense to me now… however, I’m still working max for 30secs at a time every 30secs…. so in theory fine, but she was also saying that you COULD go back to working max without completely recovering / replenishing atp-cp or waiting for lactic acid to dissipate completely so I guess that’s what I’m doing: working on 50% recovery, which she said was adequate. funny how she was kinda contradicting herself tho. glad to have YOU to make it clearer!

   thanks again
   J

4. Jon Says:
   May 23rd, 2009 at 1:12 am

   No problem! I’m just glad it makes sense :-)

   I would imagine that the 50% recovery is a ballpark figure for the average. So with any averages you get a bell curve and it’s possible for you to be past that. General fitness also comes into play too. If you’re more conditioned to run then that will also affect recovery times as your body will be more efficient at recovering from running.

   I guess you have to remember professors and teachers are people too – Unless they have done more research into that particular area they will just take what they learn as being true. Some just take every bit of information to heart and recite it as though it’s dogma – how dare you question it ;-)

   Jon

5. Anthony Says:
   May 23rd, 2009 at 6:55 am

   I am not an expert but I am doing some HIIT on a 1:1 ratio following the Viking Warrior Conditioning course by Kenneth Jay.

   The 1:3 is total BS in my opinion. Most experts are talking about using a heart rate monitor; so you can begin the interval when your heart rate drops to a certain number. You should change the ratios around anyway because you will stop adapting otherwise.

   I think you said anaerobic? But it is not, it is aerobic. Anaerobic lasts 10 seconds only.

   All the best

   Anthony

6. TheXFrame Says:
   May 23rd, 2009 at 8:09 am

   I’m no fitness professional but I used to do HIIT sprints all the time so I’ll give my .02.

   Obviously when I would start I would not be in the best cardio shape, so I would sprint 100m @ 90-95% intensity and then after I would take as much of a rest as I needed to catch my breath and wait until I felt I can go again. Usually I’d wait 30-sec to 1 minute then I would do another sprint. Each time I did this my intensity of sprinting would go down and I would be forced to rest for longer. Had I been strict with my rest intervals I would’ve puked and have been out of commission after 2-3 sprints.

   Once I got more conditioned like yourself I was able to do what you do, I would do alternate days of 100m @ 95% intensity and 200-400m @ 85% intensity and I was able to do them rapid fire and I would stop once I felt like I would need to take longer than a minute to rest. During those times I was taking Creatine regularly which I’m sure helped, also I was jam packing carbs before and after these runs.

   So I think someone saying “IT HAZ TO BE 1:3 FOR REALZZ” is a little whack I don’t think any 1 person knows the potential of all humans. And it’s not even like she meant that in order to maintain the same intensity after each high-intensity “work” internal you need 3x the rest because that is also BS since as I said I would sprint for 100m and have to take an extra minute of rest each time.

7. Girlwith Noname Says:
   May 23rd, 2009 at 11:59 am

   thanks XFrame, that comment is really helpful too… as well Anthony. However, Anthony, I have to disagree with you. Aerobic is when oxygen supply can meet oxygen demand. HIIT is definitely working where oxygen supply can NOT meet oxygen demand and therefore is working the anaerobic energy system or the ATP-CP energy system. I think!! LOL. Pretty sure tho. Jon, can you back me up on that one?

   thanks guys, you all totally rock.

8. TheXFrame Says:
   May 23rd, 2009 at 1:37 pm

   If you can talk while you are doing cardio that’s a good rule of thumb that you are using primarily the aerobic energy systems.

   I guarantee you Jackie can’t say 1 word other than “AHHHHHHHHHHHH” when she is sprinting which = anaerobic.

9. Jon Says:
   May 23rd, 2009 at 3:01 pm

   You’re correct Jackie. If you’re doing HIIT of up to 30 seconds, it is predominately the anaerobic systems being used.

   For the first 10 seconds you use the ATP-PC system then up to 20 – 30 seconds you use the anaerobic glycotic system. That is where glycogen is broken down into glucose in the absence of oxygen. After that the aerobic system takes over more.

   Doing repeated 30 second intervals with incomplete rest will cause the aerobic system to come into play more because the body can’t sustain the anaerobic state. There will always be some overlap between the systems anyway, it’s not like dead on 10 seconds your body switches from ATP-PC to glycotic and at 30 seconds switches straight to aerobic.

10. @DavidWheelerPhD Says:
    May 23rd, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    Jon is definitely right about the biochemistry. The ATP-PC system occurs in the mitochondria. Recent studies have shown that mitochondria burn much more fuel in trained athletes.

    http://lohdown.caltech.edu/script_archive?date_to_view=2009-04-14

    http://www.spectroscopynow.com/coi/cda/detail.cda?id=19721&type=Feature&chId=5&page=1

    So, the 1:3 ratio might be right for inactive people, but trained athletes have mitochondria which can recover much faster from energy deficits.

11. Girlwith Noname Says:
    May 23rd, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    Gosh you guys… what an absolute overwhelming amount of awesome information and feedback!! thanks SO much for all this great knowledge!!! David, Jon, thanks for your professional knowledge… I appreciate you sharing!!!

    cheers!
    J

12. Girlwith Noname Says:
    May 23rd, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    LOL!!! hahaha… XFrame, afraid I can’t even say THAT, during the sprint portion OR for the first 20seconds after, all I can do is suck air like its going out of style tomorrow!! LOL!! seriously, if someone put a gun to my head and said ‘speak’ I’d have no choice but to take the bullet!! :-) Like I said, they HURT…. a LOT!!!

    :-)

13. Girlwith Noname Says:
    May 23rd, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    ok you guys. I have one more question. David & Jon keep calling ATP-CP “ATP-PC”… I’m confused, cuz I’m learning it as CP, not PC, as in it stands for Creatine Phosphate. Are you guys just backward cuz you drive on the opposite side of the road too? LOL!!

14. Jon Says:
    May 24th, 2009 at 2:29 am

    It’s just one of those chemistry naming things where you can have more than 1 name for the same compound. :-)

    I’ve just always said it as ATP phosphocreatine as that’s how I’ve usually seen it in the books. There’s nothing wrong with saying Creatine Phosphate though, it’s just another term for the same thing.

15. Fitness Chick Says:
    May 24th, 2009 at 8:55 am

    HI Jackie

    The guys are bang on with what they are saying. In my opinion it depends on your fitness as to what ratio you are using, the average person just starting out would need the 1:3, as they will be taking longer to recover. Someone like you or I can manage 1:1 ratios.

    However, I always switch it up, your body will get conditioned to what you are doing, so I like to keep the body guessing so as to not hit a plateau.

    If you want a seriously hard workout, try tabata sprints !

16. Girlwith Noname Says:
    May 25th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    hey FC!! thanks so much for your input… now I have feedback from every walk of life!! fitness pros, medical pros, guys, girls, right on!!! you guys rock!!

    thanks again!